Yash From Momentum (00:00)
Hello and welcome back to Building Momentum, the show where we peel back the curtain on the exciting and often chaotic world of building a successful technology business. I'm Yash, your host for this show, where every episode we bring you the stories and strategies of people who've been in the trenches, conquering churns, scaling their teams, and building products that people and businesses love. In this episode, we'll be chatting with Aleksa from Hyperaktiv. Hyperaktiv is an AI -powered GTM data platform
that helps you grow your user base on autopilot. They're excited to hear their story and the lessons they've learned along the way. We'll be dissecting the wins, the losses and everything in between. So buckle up, grab your headphones and get ready to dive into the world of building digital products. Hey Aleksa, how are you doing today?
Aleksa (00:46)
Hey, Yash Bhai I'm doing great. Actually, in Berlin, it was quite rainy day, so I'm soaked. But besides that, enjoying this conversation with you, I enjoyed with your co -founder, Jay. So yeah, thanks for having me and looking forward to our chat.
Yash From Momentum (00:51)
Hahaha
Yup.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for joining in. And this is going to be a good one. before we end it up, because they are very interesting conversations that I want to have with you. Because we've been on a fairly similar journey before and I'll talk about that as well. But before we begin, let's talk a little bit about you, a little bit about your background. And what is the big bad problem that Hyperaktiv is solving for today?
Aleksa (01:25)
Yeah. So about myself, I'm coming originally from Belgrade, Serbia. I'm sitting right now in Berlin. And in between, I lived in Mumbai. I lived in Bratislava and ended up in Berlin. And together with my co -founder, Francois, who is coming from France, we are building Hyperaktiv, which basically helps PLG SaaS companies set their user growth.
on autopilot. What we've seen is that today average PLG SaaS company has vast amount of data. But then there is a huge problem where the ticket value, what you sell is very low. So it's like maybe 10, 20 euros a month. So it's not profitable for a salesperson to go and have a demo call or speak and find all the bottlenecks. So everything you need to do is on the scale. You have huge amount of data, you have huge scale, things are moving fast.
Yash From Momentum (02:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aleksa (02:18)
faster than ever. And basically we realized that without data team, sometimes even with the data team, that growth team is operating in a complete darkness. And that's why we built Hyperaktiv, which basically helps growth teams give them insights, enables them to give life cycle oriented automation towards users on a very hyper personalized way.
So yeah, just helping our customers feel that's what we're very excited about.
Yash From Momentum (02:45)
Yeah, and so I have some experience of shooting in the dark and spray and pray. Before Momentum, I was co -founder at a SaaS company called ClientJoy. Our average ticket size was $19 a month. And the exact same story, right? It's extremely expensive to have a sales -led outbound motion where you are demoing to all the customers and you have an opportunity to have a conversation with them. So it was completely inbound, completely automated, sort of a PLG.
Aleksa (02:57)
Mm
Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (03:15)
type of a motion. one of the things that I was working on almost every week was designing experiments without having the right data sets. And so it's just sort of shooting in the dark. It's a really big challenge that you'll be solving for. And so tell us a little bit about where Hyperaktiv is. So in terms of what's the status quo?
Aleksa (03:27)
Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (03:39)
in terms of whatever metric that you feel comfortable in terms of team size, in terms of number of customers, number of lines of code, whatever, like where is hyperactivity?
Aleksa (03:48)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have around 10 customers at the moment. Recurring customers, we are a team of three. So my co -founder, Francois, myself, and recently, a great content marketer joined us, Victoria. So it's, and yeah, we are at the stage where we are looking to push for some 20, 30 more customers, at least till the end of the year.
And yeah, mean, we are generating revenue. Always not on the level you want to, always slower than you want to. But yeah, at least there is something. And now we are building up to really, hopefully, starting from springtime, hyperscale it.
Yash From Momentum (04:29)
Yeah, and in my limited experience, each new customer is an easier battle to win. So, it gets easier. So, which is sort of fun of building a SaaS product as well. And so, the piece that I want to understand from you a little more is.
Aleksa (04:35)
Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (04:47)
is you had a couple of pivots over the past few years. the first, like the core piece that I want to understand is how do you figure out that it's time for a pivot? Because a lot of times what will happen is that, I mean, the easier answer is because you don't have anyone paying for it or you don't have anyone using it and stuff like that. But then that actually ends up happening when people are not paying or when people are not using. A founder typically
Aleksa (04:50)
Yep.
Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (05:12)
tends to tell themselves that the reason why people are not using it is because we do not have this feature. But the reason why people are not using it is because we are not doing the right marketing or whatever the case may be. And so in those circumstances, how do you actually figure out that, OK, this is a time to consider a pivot? What needs to happen for that?
Aleksa (05:32)
Yeah. So, okay. So basically what we were doing before, what we change, I'm going to tell you that in a bit, but before when we were building, we were building based, everything on based on feedback, what people want. And of course, everything that is in theory, how it sounds, yeah, you ask for the problems, what's the severity of the problem, would they pay for it if it's solved and you know, like all different things you can find online, mum test.
Like whatever there is in theory, we've done it. And so basically before when we went through two bigger periods and a lot of smaller iterations. So basically we never, we would be building something based on the feedback. What is the problem? Why? You know, so everything around it. And then we would go back to the people that say that this problem is too like big for them and they would want to.
get it sold, would quantify it, like how much time it was saved for them or revenue make and so on. And it was always the same pattern, you know, like we would go build some small MVP, it would take us a couple of weeks, couple of days, depending on the feature or we would go back to the customer saying it was always the same feeling. It was always the same, you know.
Yeah, let's see. Let's, you know, I can check with my colleague then, you know, maybe let's do this or that. But like, it was always like, it was always like something missing. It was always something I, you yeah, maybe not this year, but like maybe in two, like, it was always something, you know, when it's time to put money where the mouth is, it was always very difficult step.
Yash From Momentum (07:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aleksa (07:11)
And, you know, as my background is in sales, like as a salesperson, you get very, very frustrated where your revenue level is zero. Like, you know, there is a huge difference when you're a salesperson, you have commission and, you you have lower income. My salary was pretty much the same, but I'm deep down, I'm a salesperson. You know, I see revenue level zero. like, I get annoyed and I mean,
things are around this, like customers and revenue when it's not going, I get super grumpy. I get very frustrated. then Francois and I had a little bit of a more radical approach towards our last pivot where we said, we don't build things anymore based on a feedback. We build it based on revenue.
But not like let's pre -sell it to them, like let's build our MVP in a matter of hours. How do we do that? Let's use third party tools that are on the market, make some Frankenstein, have that quick loop between the service, the feedback and the money. And we said, we don't care about the amount percent
Yash From Momentum (08:00)
Yeah.
Aleksa (08:20)
Let's get first dollar to our pocket. know, like first dollar, hundred dollars, like that doesn't matter. Let's just get that first initial amount. And then we start to speak initially with people. We went through this last pivot like some eight months ago and people started paying us for processing stuff for them inside Excel. And we were like, you know what, let's build our algorithms, processing algorithms inside Excel.
inside Google Sheets, sorry, where basically our MVP was Google Sheets and we were writing code inside the sheets and basically our iteration time was it went to seconds. You know, you're coming from the tech industry, usually iterations are weeks, days, sometimes hours. Even if you want to do smaller change, you need to spend hours
until the time it's live and deployed. So what we've done with the Google Sheets, we then did the iteration in a matter of seconds. And we built like 30, 40 processing algorithms inside Google Sheets. And the front end was Google Sheets and Google Data Studio. And we were running our processing algorithm inside Google Sheets pretty much. So
Yash From Momentum (09:16)
for sure.
Aleksa (09:37)
We already, when we were speaking, were like, okay, anyway, 90%, 95 % of our value as a company is processing algorithms. Let's just use piggyback on this other front end tools. And we were doing that and some companies were paying even like thousand euros. We were at the time doing one -off services and we built it. Like it was basically a...
Like MVP was working and we were like, okay, let's, let's now, you know, build up on top of this. And the biggest radical thing that really changed was we started building stuff based on revenue. honestly, like whatever we would be building in the future, new company, current company, whatever. I think that will be the model we will always follow. Like there are so many third party tools today. Like.
that you can use to really validate your problem, get that first revenue towards you. That became our big mantra. And even today, whenever we are building some feature that might take a little bit more hours and we are testing out, what we do, we first kind of do it manually. Okay, is it picking up? Okay, let's implement it with the code. Yeah, yeah.
Yash From Momentum (10:44)
This is so cool because the first ever episode that we recorded was with a founder called Josiah. He ran a social media company and he told me I did not know this, know about this before but one of the things that he said was software is sunk cost. So like any piece of software that you have written is the money that is gone.
Aleksa (11:02)
Mm
Yash From Momentum (11:05)
And so you want to start at the very absolute early stages, you want to start with the approach of service as a software. And so you want to offer whatever it is that you want to build. Today, you start to offer it as a service. If people pay for the service, then they'll for sure pay for the software as well later when you build it out, which is interesting.
Aleksa (11:23)
100%. So what was our mantra in the beginning? We said, okay, it's software as a service, right? So let's start with to understand what would be the service. And then we build the software for it because like exactly like, you know, like today, this product that you're building could go into very various directions. There are a lot of product analytics tools.
Yash From Momentum (11:36)
software.
Aleksa (11:50)
Like, you know, we could have easily ended up there if we didn't really nail it down. We could have easily ended up in the direction of, I don't know, pure automation tool. we, so without this step, I was, I was actually speaking with, you know, Francois is a, his background is he's software engineer. And, you know, for him, I think it was a little bit more difficult to accept this because, know, like
Imagine, you you love to code and everything and you need to accept, man, I'm developing my algorithms inside Google sheets It's, I'm sure that Francois had difficult time accepting that, but he did it. He did a fantastic job. And basically we were writing and I asked him, speaking about it. And I asked him, hey, Francois, like, what do you think if you didn't take this step with Google sheets? What do you think how our
Yash From Momentum (12:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aleksa (12:40)
projection trajectory would be going. He was like, it made it so easy for him to build because he knows exactly what, how, where. And he said like very easily that if we haven't started with the Google sheets.
He said it will be a huge question. He said it might be that he wouldn't be able to pull it off starting from the code immediately without Google sheets. So it's also, you know, like I think it also accelerates your software development quite a lot because I think that the biggest issue when you're building a software that you know exactly what needs to be done, you know, and, you know, you need that concept feedback loop. this direction good? Is this
Yash From Momentum (13:13)
Yeah.
Get it? Get it.
Aleksa (13:19)
And then Francois, we have like 40, 50, maybe even close to 100 processing algorithms. And in order for them to be, you know, in the right direction, correct and so on, you need constant feedback loop. So it just accelerated everything for us. Like we took, we were aware that we were taking one step back, but then we believe we went 5, 10 steps forward.
Yash From Momentum (13:41)
Yeah, no, absolutely. So asking a software engineer to code within Google Sheets is like asking a really good salesperson to present, make a sales pitch on word document. So it does not feel that it will do the job, but it is significantly faster to integrate.
Aleksa (14:01)
Yep.
Yash From Momentum (14:01)
If you're designing a pitch deck for the first time, know, Docs is a great way to just list out everything and then you want to put in the effort to design and so on and so forth. So yeah, nobody's worried.
Aleksa (14:09)
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and so just to finish for this, and that's why, Francois has been my best ever, not only co -founder, but really the colleague ever, because, you know, he has understand, you know, sometimes people are very excited about some stuff and, know, he could have said, you know what, I'm a software engineer. will just write software. don't care about Excel, but, know, he's a such amazing colleague and such amazing co -founder that I was lucky to meet him that he's also willing to adjust his ways.
You know, and to go, he's a Java developer, like a backend architecture, everything, he loves it. And then to put everything on that on hold. So it's a really testament how, how really great, not only software engineer, but like really businessman he is.
Yash From Momentum (14:51)
Yeah, no, for sure. Absolutely. The other thing that I'm a little more curious about is when a SaaS company achieves some amount of scale, right? So let's say for the purpose of this conversation, let's assume that that critical scale is, let's say, 10 million in annual. Invariably, they will start investing into building internal tools and platforms. So some things for.
for themselves to be able to govern the growth of their product matter. And so at that point of time, the, so the question that I have for you is, you know how dating apps, like the best case scenario of dating apps is user churn. Two people meet on the dating app.
They like each other, they get married, and then they churn out of the app. Isn't it very similar for Hyperaktiv as well? Because if I'm a SaaS company, I'm using Hyperaktiv, it helps me grow. And then it takes me to a particular level where I will have to build a custom internal.
Aleksa (15:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (15:50)
tools / platform / whatever we choose to call it. And then the best case scenario for Hyperaktiv is also churn. That a company grows and then they build their own system around it. How do you think about that? So what's the thought process?
Aleksa (16:05)
I mean, that's why we are right now building stuff that, be honest, like what we've seen as to be our biggest competitor. Of course, there are a lot of cool tools there on the market, really cool ones from very smart people. But what we've seen as a bigger competitor, or let's say alternative, PLG SaaS companies hiring data teams. That's by far, as you mentioned, they want to internally build
Yash From Momentum (16:27)
Yeah, yeah.
Aleksa (16:28)
some stuff, they want to have their own models, they want to own fully their data, and at one moment they want to, you know, kind of own all of that. For us, that's completely fine. That's something that we are launching soon, a couple of features that, be quite frank, no data team will be able to deliver. And that is basically how we manage it right now is coming back how
and PLG SaaS companies are operating in darkness when it comes to growth and data is we've seen that there are certain aspects, let's say constant nudges and onboarding for people to know if the things are really giving the results and certain, you know, lifecycle based on like signals based on profile or engagement levels or lifecycle change, some automations where
To be honest, this would be very, very difficult for the data internal data team to replicate. mean, they would be able to do it, but not so much. And also to be very frank with you, we don't really think about this at this stage. At the moment, our main focus is small PLG teams that have less than 50 people and usually don't have data team.
We just want to help them figure things out, get conversion, get retention. And we will slowly grow with them. But we see the ways how we become like at the moment, our biggest value is for the companies that they don't have data team at all. But in the upcoming weeks or in a couple of months, we would have also certain features. Like even if you have a data team,
it would be very difficult to replicate that. But also at the end of the day, there will be always companies that want to own stuff. There are companies in the world that they're building their own custom CRMs, they're building their own custom everything. That's sometimes the nature of the business. So we are just focused on our current target segment that's really helped them win in the market.
And if they grow, you know, like we wish them all the luck and if they want to continue cooperating, let's do it. We will be their biggest supporters. If not, we're happy also to part ways. mean, if they don't see it anymore, that we are best partner for that. will just, the only thing I would like to learn in that situation is like, okay, what they're looking for, what we have to do, like a gap analysis and to see, does it make sense for us to move?
develop a product for the next segment, like a more mid -market enterprise, and move with them or to stay in the segment area.
Yash From Momentum (19:04)
When this problem occurs, I would sort of classify this as a great problem to have. Like if this, if ever this happens, it's a great challenge to solve. Yeah, because what that means is like you've got a minimum of couple of companies from 0 to 10 million in run rate which is a great in and of itself. The other piece that I want to understand
Aleksa (19:10)
Exactly, like a nice to have. Yeah, yeah, it's a great nice to have problem.
Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (19:31)
a little bit from you is that you mentioned that you raised capital as well, but the team size is three, which means that you sort of very lean, mean sort of a team. I have always wanted to do that. am feeling sort of a little jealous. Because, like when you raise capital, there some amount of pressure to perform. So monthly numbers, quarterly numbers and…
Aleksa (19:39)
Yeah.
You
Yash From Momentum (19:52)
and so on and so forth. And a lot of times the answer to that is here are the campaigns that we are running. Here's how big our top of the funnel is. Here's how many people that we've recruited. Sometimes these are not the right metrics or they are not taken in the right context. But this pressure is real because every week or every month you'll get on a call with the investor who will ask, what did you do this month? And you cannot say research. You cannot say user interviews. These are not.
for whatever reason, not acceptable forms of responses. How have you managed that? Just a blank question, what are you doing? How are you doing?
Aleksa (20:30)
Yeah, so there is two parts of this question. So first of all, yes, you're right. We raised funds in 2022, but we've been operating almost like a bootstrap business. we have, I think, one of the lowest burn rates within my peers.
And not because like we, we are like, you know, we just want to spend the least and, we are excited about that. Like we just saw always like, okay, let's spend how much is necessary for the business to grow. Till this moment, it was never, so when we just raised money, we were thinking, okay, let's hire what we need to hire. Let's hire another salesperson. And then we can go, go to market, very aggressive and do the stuff. And then we started hiring and then two things happened.
Like we were hiring people and there were some really great prospects and we started getting a feeling like I said honestly to Francois, I was like, man, I don't even know what I'm selling. I don't know the value prop. At the time we had a couple of design thinking companies, like maybe some pilots, but zero paying customers. And then we were like,
Okay, let's put it on a paper. We don't know our own stuff there. There are no repeatable things that we can say, okay, you know the repeatable process. We know the common objections. So our thought process at the time, and I think we did a good job. Maybe our investors would have a different opinion. But at the time we decided to stop the recruitment.
And to say, okay, once we know this question ourselves to answer, let's then hire people because what would happen, our thought process was the following. If we would hire somebody, we don't know the things. Things are very repeatable. Things are very dynamic. We would have, we would increase the burn rate of our company. That person would get very, very frustrated, very fast.
quite, it was very, it was quite possible that that person would start selling some stuff. You might change or adjust and then that person might go into, know, keep going in the wrong direction, not because that person is bad. Exactly. So we were like, okay, you know, the more we would get this kind of hires, even if you get the best ever talent in the world,
Yash From Momentum (22:37)
different direction.
Aleksa (22:47)
you know, if you're moving all the time as you're doing constantly in finding product market fit, we realized, okay, we will spend more time managing business than building it. And it was definitely time to build the business, not to manage the business. So, for us, it was like, we will increase the run rate. We would have people, we would need to manage them. People would get frustrated. We would get frustrated. It would go into completely wrong direction. Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (23:10)
cycle.
Aleksa (23:11)
And then at the time when we were starting, like, we have three VCs and some of them, were like, you know, maybe you should increase the burn, maybe you should hire more people and so on. But Francois truly believed that, you know, it wasn't time to do that. And then as things changed quite quickly in 2022,
Then also the feedback from the investors who are like, you know what, this is right now how the things are. Just keep kind of the burn rate low until you figure out where to increase the spending. And as we were going through iterations and builds, like honestly, like looking back, yes, we could have burned more money, but it would be literally just throwing the money away through the window.
We would be inventing ways to burn money. If I would tell you, yeah, like if I would tell you, hey yash, spend this month like $10 ,000 more, you will be like, okay, what do I spend it on? So we just felt it like, let's use this money, slowly crunch it while we're on a product market fit.
Yash From Momentum (24:06)
money.
Aleksa (24:27)
And then, you know, once we start filling it, let's invest more. And that's happening actually right now. There we are projecting that our burn rate will probably increase by 50 % or 100 % in the next couple of weeks or months. And the second question when it comes to the investors and their happiness or, or, or,
know, coping with the whole journey of finding product market fit. it was, it was never an, I never seen it as as a point for us where we had some misalignments or disagreements with them because we've been really pushing, I've been always trying to, from the sales side, really to push and asking them for a lot of intros, doing stuff. So they've seen things moving, you know.
They also seen how Francois is developing. Francois is the only developer in the company and like two weeks ago, he deployed 50 new issues in one week. know, like they're seeing stuff and so far we had always very, very transparent relationship where we clearly showed them, you know, like, this is what you've done. These are the learnings. These are the stuff. This is what you're going to do next.
Every monthly report pretty much has all the highlights all the lowlights. So they've been kind of included, you know, so From one perspective as an investor. Yes, they can say, know guys They've been months or a couple of years like we haven't seen results, but then you know, they've seen the things are happening. So We are pretty much on the same on the same page that right now the only goal is revenue
And that's it. Like there is nothing, there is no much philosophy over there. So we are really oriented towards revenue. want to generate as much revenue as possible, like not only because of our investors, but we believe that's what the company needs. And if we get more customers, we get more revenue. So that's all aligned in the same direction. So in that sense, at the end of the day, I think that we are pretty much aligned what we're doing.
Yash From Momentum (26:32)
So for all the people who are listening or watching this, I would like to say that I have been in the same shoes as Aleksa and he is making it sound simple, but that is because we are in hindsight, you know, doing what he is saying, like doing that, having that mature conversation with investor, making sure that your priorities are straight and so I tell you.
One of the ways to describe what Aleksa is saying or the way that he saying right now is if you ask a soldier who has come back from war as to how did you do well, how did you win the war, their answer would be I shot the enemy first, which is true, which is correct, but it is extremely difficult to do.
So when you are actually living through it, when an investor is asking you questions in terms of how much amount of growth, how many new features, what is happening within the organization, and when that happens consistently week after week, and you see that there is money in the bank, it is difficult to resist the temptation.
Aleksa (27:31)
Yeah. I mean, also to be, to be frank, to what we've done, more thing is, we also kept our salaries. Francois and my salaries are, are the lowest in the company. It's true of us, but Francois and I have the lowest salaries. within our peers, here in Berlin, we have the lowest salaries. Like some, we, we, we, I have some peers, they have double our salaries or even triple.
So, you know, our investors, I mean, I'm speculating right now. I'm speculating right now, but, you know, they can see that we are with our full heart and soul into this. We are not here to, you know, to play founders, to look nice and to be fancy and be cool. Like we are into this 100%. And they see it from our approach. They see it like, they know that we're also sacrificing a lot.
Yash From Momentum (27:57)
You also look at that, yeah.
Aleksa (28:23)
So, you know, to be honest, like, if you're realistic, that's the maximum we can give. And, you know, if they expect more than that.
Yash From Momentum (28:31)
Yeah, there are no words to finish that sentence, but I got the distance. So thank you for sharing that. And so this, Aleksa, brings us towards the last part of this conversation, which is where I ask you a question that was asked by my previous guest, that they are trying to solve for at their organization. So my previous guest was Kevin. Kevin runs a SaaS company called Ahsuite. Ahsuite is a client portal.
Sorry, AhSuite is a platform that agencies can use to create client portals for their clients to give them real time updates and things like that. And you can white label it and really offer a great experience to your clients. One of the challenges that he's sort of an existential sort of questions that he has is with AI coming in and making the process of building software as quick.
as it has and as more efficient as it has. Is there relevance for building softwares that you see over the next seven or 10 years? Is there a possibility that seven or 10 years later, AI will make building softwares so easy that a completely non -tech person who just knows a particular language, most likely English,
is able to build their own software and get their jobs done. And so that's something that he's currently battling with. What are your thoughts?
Aleksa (29:57)
Yeah, I I think, I mean, we've seen this also with the NoCode tools, local tools and all the stuff that the barrier to entry for software is constantly dropping down. So basically also the value of the company right now, I think is the biggest when it comes to the customer base and the go to market motion, because I think it's becoming so easy to build something. We witness, like I'm seeing on Reddit every single day where people say openly,
I just built an open AI wrapper in a couple of hours and I'm having customers. So I think that with more and tools and more innovation, it will be very easier for people to create software and products. But you will always need a great developer or engineer that will be overseeing all of that.
What I believe that will happen and I mean, I'm seeing it on a daily level. Francois is like a extremely talented developer. I'm sure if you would put him with all these new tools that he can out -compete a team of other engineers that are not using these tools. So the productivity of extremely good developers will go...
Yash From Momentum (31:05)
Yeah, for sure.
Aleksa (31:10)
to the levels that, yeah, exactly. what might happen that, I mean, we are also seeing from our customers that teams are getting leaner and leaner. And it's not only into software development, it's across the board. It's like with the sales, like right now, some things that sales team of 5 or 10 used to do now you can achieve with two people in the sales team with a bunch of tools. And they can even potentially go even faster.
Yash From Momentum (31:11)
drastically.
Aleksa (31:38)
than traditional teams. And I think it's happening everywhere. And I think it's a definitely great, great thing. I mean, we're also doing that in a way as a product trying to help marketeers to move independently from the data teams, way faster and bigger. So I'm a big believer in that in efficiency and productivity. Like we love that. Like Francois and I, we always try to find ways.
okay, how some things that we do, how we can move like 5, 10 times faster than we are doing today. So that's also one of our, you know, pretty much...
ideas. Francois is with the tools he's using, he's able to easily, what I told you, he had 50 different issues deployed two weeks ago. Some tools that I'm using, usually before the teams that I was doing that would be doing probably two, three, four, 5 people sales team, what I'm doing along with different tools. And now with Victoria is doing, she also using different tools, she should also out compete.
different content teams. we are huge believers in this. It's not that it will completely coming back to your question. I don't think that software engineering as a discipline will go extinct, far from that. But like it might happen if you find one great engineer giving the right tools in his or her hands, you might get the work, the team of a 10. and when it comes to
Other topic is before, like let's say 10, 20, 30 years ago, building software was so difficult and complex that the biggest mode was really, built a product. And that was the thing. I had the product and it was so difficult to replicate building the product that that was enough. But right now that's like, software became a commodity. If we are honest with each other. Yeah.
Yash From Momentum (33:23)
Yeah, just that EP. Yeah.
It's a commodity,
Aleksa (33:37)
So right now everything is about the go to market. Everything is about can you build community? Can you retain your users? You know, and so on.
Yash From Momentum (33:45)
And what's the challenge that you are trying to solve for at Hyperaktiv that you would like to ask our next guest?
Aleksa (33:51)
Yeah. Yeah. So we have three pieces that are always moving and they're moving at different speeds. So first one is...
Yash From Momentum (33:58)
Okay.
Aleksa (34:00)
what we speak with customers. That's the fastest. And we understand like what's the new change or the things we need to adjust, let's say on the website, on the product and so on. Then the next thing that moves a little bit slower, but you can get something within minutes or hours is the design, like a pure design.
And then the slowest thing that moves is in the end, actually the code and the product or the website. So something that you've been trying to figure out how to really accelerate or better said to shorten is these cycles between these three moving pieces. Cause your, your value prop is constantly moving. You know, like
as, as particular as you're trying to mature, like, you know, with the, with the new features and so on, like it's constantly moving. Then the design is constantly moving and then the code is constantly moving. So we, we, we've been like, it's been huge enigma for us. How do we accelerate? How do we shorten time between these moving pieces that, you know, we go as fast as possible from value prop to be there on the website or the code. So this is something that.
I'm not sure if this is more philosophical question or something, but I would really love to understand how other people are doing it, because that's for us, at least for me, has been the biggest pain in the ass, like in the whole journey.
Yash From Momentum (35:23)
Interesting. This is a great question. I love it when great questions are asked and I like to see my guests suffer trying to answer a question. And one of the things that I also realized having recorded, I think about 25 odd episodes, we released 10 episodes, recorded about 25 odd episodes, is that my guests ask significantly better questions than I.
Aleksa (35:33)
You
Yash From Momentum (35:50)
And so, but it's fun. think this is going to be meaningful. I'm recording my next episode in the next three hours, four hours, I think. And so it should be a fun conversation. But with that, Aleksa, we come to the end of this remarkable episode where you have been calm, quiet, but you've given us some really good points of wisdom from pivoting to the problem that you're solving to...
How do you think about future problems, best cases, helping your customers grow? This has been a really insightful conversation. And for all the people who've been watching or listening to this conversation, whether it is on YouTube or Amazon Music or Spotify, you'll be able to find the link to Hyperaktiv in the description. If you are building a SaaS company and you don't have a PLG team or a data team, you should go ahead and check out
Hyperaktiv product. They have a free forever plan which works for, I think, up to 1 ,000 users, 1 ,000 monthly active users. So you should go ahead and check that out as well. But awesome, Aleksa. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see all of you guys until next time.
Aleksa (36:48)
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Thanks a lot, Yash. It was great talking with you.
Yash From Momentum (37:03)
Same here, same here.
.png)
.webp)
